Which Cap for a “Multifuel”?

Hi BernieDawg
I  have  a  short  question  about  the  bernie dawg silencer caps. Does the Omnifuel Cap fit to the Multifuel Burner?
Best regards,
Stove Guy
Hi Stove Guy
Thanks for your questions.
I’m not sure from your question which “Multifuel burner” you are meaning. Primus has made several different stoves they have called the “Multifuel”.  And, Trangia has sold two different types of “Multifuel”-named burners. All this makes things confusing if you don’t go by model numbers or full product names.
Sooo… I’ll cover them all. This is a bit complicated, so please read through this carefully.
Omnifuel 3289
The OmniDawg cap is for the Primus Omnifuel 3289 stove.

Omnifuel 3289

Trangia X2 Multifuel 750001 Burner made for Trangia by Primus – current production
The Trangia X2 Multifuel 75001 burner is made for Trangia by Primus, but it is made in a way so is not as powerful a burner as the Omnifuel. It looks like it’s an Omnifuel, but it’s less powerful because of the reduced power jets supplied with the X2.

For the reduced power Trangia X2 Multifuel burner, the PolarDawg silent damper cap works best. The DragonTamer is a pretty good second choice.
Some clever stove users have changed out the jets on their Trangia X2 Multifuel burners so that the X2 runs the same jets as the Omnifuel. If you intend to do that, it may cause melting of your Trangia windscreen surrounds if you are not careful and attentive. But, using the more powerful jets makes the X2 more like the Omnifuel, and a OmniDawg cap would be the right one to use.
Caution! I do not recommend the use of a re-jetted X2 with an OmniDawg cap with the Trangia 27 sets as the small size of the surrounds puts the surrounds too close to the flame. Trangia 25 sets are okay. if you are careful.
Trangia Multifuel Burner 780001 made for Trangia by Optimus – discontinued product
The original Multifuel 780001 burner sold by Trangia was made for them by Optimus and is a stripped-down Nova burner. There are “fins” inside the burner bell of this burner.
The proper silent cap for this burner is the Dawg-A-Nova cap.
Primus 328894 Multifuel
The newer 3288 (correctly termed the 328894) Multifuel is a reduced feature (no stove-side control spindle) Omnifuel-based stove. Sort of a Omnifuel “lite” stove.

Multifuel 328894

For a bit more money you can get a real Omnifuel and the additional cost is well worth it for the control spindle. Because the Omnifuel is also much more popular, you can also commonly find new Omnifuels at discount for prices well below the retail cost of the 328894 Multifuel. The 328894 Multifuel comes with the same jet set as the Omnifuel.
The OmniDawg cap is the one to use with the 328894 Multifuel stove.
Primus Himalaya Varifuel 3278 and Multifuel 3288 – discontinued product
These are two long discontinued stoves from Primus that I am often asked about. Both stoves feature small diameter burner bells and smaller jets than the Omnifuel.

Both stoves, the Varifuel 3278 and the Multifuel 3288 work well with the Minicap, either with or without legs. I recommend the Minicap with Legs if you are only planning on using the Minicap with one of these Primus stoves. If you would like the flexibility to use your Minicap on other small self-pressurizing stoves like the Optumus 80, Radius 42, or Svea 123/123R, then I recommend the Minicap without Legs.

Sorry for any confusion this may cause. Primus and Trangia haven’t been kind to us in naming so many stoves as a “Multifuel”. I hope my post will enable you to select the right cap for your stove.
Happy Camping!
BD

Stuck NRVs??

Hi BernieDawg
I have this great old Primus 100 stove that I’m trying to fettle. I’ve got the NRV loosened up, but it seems to be stuck in the bottom of the pump tube and won’t drop out of the tube. It’s hung up somehow. It wiggles around and is loose down there at the bottom of the pump tube. I wonder if there’s some gunk in the tank that’s hanging it up?
What can I do to get it free?
Sincerely,
Stuck and perplexed
____________________________

Hi Stuck

Well… I think this might make a good blog topic actually, because I get this question and this issue fairly frequently. And, don’t feel bad – it’s common and it happens to me, too. Here’s how I handle it.
1. best thing is to buy a tool which can solve 75% of these sort of stuck NRV issues. What you want is an “ear forceps” aka an “alligator forceps”. They come out of Pakistan (for reasons I don’t understand) for pretty cheap. They are stainless steel. And they help you with other tank related stuff, say reaching into a tank to retrieve something, or at the end of the pump tube in case a rotted leather pump cup gets stuck down there. Check pricing on eBay, but here’s a screen shot of a pair I picked at random just so you can see what I’m talking about:
The larger one is about 6.5″ long and is a great size for pump tube and stove tank work. But, you can get them a lot longer, too. It was selling as a Buy-It-Now with free shipping for only $6.50.
2. next thing is to take your little flashlight and peer into the tank. Is it all black and gooey in there? If it is, then your idea about gooey stuff being on the end of the NRV barrel is probably right. Here’s how to fix that and clean your tank, too. Get a gallon of acetone at Home Depot, Lowes, or wherever. Fill the tank with it. Let it soak (plug the openings with some paper toweling to control evaporation). If you want to get really industrious, you can add some BB’s to the tank and shake it around. Pour out the acetone into a metal or glass container through a coffee filter for reuse – you can reuse it on many tanks. Shake out the BB’s, or use a magnetic pen tool to remove them. Rinse the tank with just a splash of acetone and you should be good to go. Acetone dissolves the black gooey crud (dried kerosene). It will dissolve the gooey crud on the end of the NRV barrel and then it should pop right out. This should take care of another 20% of the problems.
3. two other issues can cause the NRV to hang up in about 4% of cases.
a. there can be a little burr of brass where the vent hole in the side of the NRV barrel was punched in the barrel. You can use your alligator forceps gripping the NRV head with an unscrewing motion (like you are unthreading the NRV) to “unscrew” the burr past the opening in the pump tube end plate. Do it with the pump tube opening facing toward the floor to allow gravity to assist you. Use a little 400 grit wet dry sandpaper or a small file to remove the burr once you’ve got it out so it doesn’t give you problems again.
b. the other problem comes about from using lead NRV head washers. The lead will expand outward when the NRV head is tightened down, sometimes into the opening for the NRV head threads. This can hang up the NRV. Alligator forceps should help you to get it out, again with that unscrewing motion. Consider to switching to HDPE (#2 plastic) NRV head washers. You can punch them from the lids of food containers, so they are cheap to make and they almost never cause these hang-up problems. They last forever, too.
4. Lastly… for that final 1% of stubborn NRVs… if you have compressed air… set the air output to about 40 psi. Hold a rag in your hand over the pump tube opening to catch the NRV. Install the vent screw and apply a little compressed air into the burner mount opening with your thumb over the filler opening. Pop! Out shoots the NRV into the rag in your hand. These can shoot across the shop if you don’t use a rag to catch it and be difficult to fine otherwise.
Hope that helps!
Happy camping!
BD

Primus 100 Silent Cap?

Dear BernieDawg
I found a great old Primus 100. It works well and is very nice. But, how can I make it more quiet for use in camp in the early morning ? Thank you for your help!
Noisemaker
 –
Hi Noisemaker
The Primus 100 stoves are among my favorites. A silent damper cap can make your stove quieter, and also generate a better fuel/air mix for efficient burning.
 –
 Best choice is a Primus 4010 silent damper cap. They work super awesome on the 100s.
Base-Camp in England had some of the 4010’s a while back, but they’ve sold out of them now. Watch for a possible (though unlikely) return of the 4010 at Base-Camp sometime in the future, or ask around to some of the stove forums. Perhaps someone there would sell you one of their extras.
 –
Another good choice for a Primus 100 silent damper cap is to fab up a cap adapter I call a spigot plate. I’ve made lots of these over the years. It’s a great newbie brazing project for anyone who wants to work on stoves.
 –
Basically, you take a round piece of sheet metal with a hole in the center and braze a short piece of 5/8” diameter tubing to the middle.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

The spigot plate holds the inner cap centered, and the outer cap settles around the inner cap.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

You can make the diameter of the sheet metal base to fit either the first or the second ledge in the lipstick burner bell and then just use a regular cap set with the stove.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

Good luck on this project. It can be done with hand tools and an electric drill. You don’t need specialized tools.
Happy camping!
BD

Silent Cap for 111B?

Hello BernieDawg,
I’m sure you’ve received this question before, but I’ll go ahead and ask. Do you have a silent damper for the Optimus 111 stove (hiker) with the “roarer” burner?
Thanks,
“Bugged by Noise”

Hi, “Bugged”
Thanks for your question and your interest in my silent cap products. I *have* received this question quite a few times.

The short answer to your question is no. No one anywhere to date has a silencing product to work on your 111 roarer burner. Sorry.
Now, in the past, some folks have gotten all mad and upset about this. It’s almost like they think I’m holding out on them or something. So, I hope you won’t mind too much if I try to show why I do not have any caps for the 111 style burner.
Here’s the explanation. The standard 111 or 111B burners have the traditional shaped design where the vaporization chamber is above the jet. Fuel moves into that chunk of metal above the jet (the burner “head” or vaporization chamber), the fuel is heated into a vapor up top and then the vapor moves down a tube, into the jet and spews upward as flame to heat the vapo chamber. It’s pretty neat how these work, really. These burners look like this one on a Optimus 22:
111 roarer copy
All silent caps, mine or others, are designed to work with another, and very different, type of roarer burner where the design uses a bell-shaped structure. Here’s a Dragonfly burner without it’s flame plate in place. With this burner, the jet spews vapor upward which hits a flame plate above the burner. The flame plate spreads the flame out and the flames heat the side walls of the bell. The heat from the flames is conducted back down to the base of the burner which is where the vaporization of the fuel is going on.
P4210030
What the caps do is capture the vapor stream and emit it through hundreds of tiny holes. There are then hundreds of teeny flames that bathe the rim of the bell in heat and the heat is conducted back to the base of the burner to vaporize the fuel. Lots of teeny flames are much quieter than one big monster flame.
P4210026
You can see how the flame plate sits on the bells of these two Primus 96 stoves.
P5190092
This is a burner from a Phoebus 625 which really shows the bell structure well.
P9030005P9030006
It is pretty straightforward to replace a flame plate with a silent cap on a bell-shaped burner. Just pop the flame plate off and add the cap to replace it. Here’s a MSR FireFly stove shown with a flame plate and then a silent cap.
PA230642PA230643 - Version 2
But, so far, nobody has been able to come up with a way to remove the flame ring on a standard roarer burner with that overhead vaporization chamber and add some sort of device to make it silent.
111 burning
Believe me when I say I have thought long and hard on how to make a “cap” for the traditional overhead vapo chamber roarer. I’ve tried a few experiments, too. Nothing that’ll work so far. The feller who can come up with a way to silence these burners is going to have a really popular product on their hands. 😉
The good news is that Optimus made a silent version of your 111 stove in two different flavors, the 111T and the 111C. These came standard with a third type of burner which is designed to operate very quietly straight from the factory, no aftermarket caps needed.
111T:
Screen Shot 2015-10-31 at 2.12.41 PM
111C (out of it’s case ‘cause I was working on it):
111C
The 111T is much more common, but both stoves show up on eBay from time to time.
I hope this helps explain things. Good luck to you if you decide to pursue a 111T or C on eBay. They are really nice stoves – you wouldn’t go wrong if you bought one.
Happy Camping!
BernieDawg

Coleman 345 (and 348!) paperwork

Hi BernieDawg
I’ve heard you have lots of documents in your collection. I have a Coleman 345 marine stove and I would really like to get the instructions for the operation of the stove. Do you have such a thing?
Sincerely,
Coleman Searcher


Hi Coleman Searcher
You bet! I have the instructions for both the 345 (kerosene) and the 348 (denatured alcohol) versions of these awesome old marine stoves. Here is the paperwork for your stove:
(just click on the thumbnail images for the larger versions)
Coleman 345 pp
Coleman 345-2pp

I don’t believe that these sorts of documents on old stoves should be kept behind membership requirements or pay-to-view mechanisms on the internet just to promote the sites that hold them hostage. I believe that the free exchange of information without strings attached is what best promotes the collection and preservation of old stoves. Isn’t that what the internet is supposed to be about?

I hope this helps you with your stove. It’s a nice one!

Happy camping!
BernieDawg

UPDATE! Here are the instructions for the Coleman 348 alcohol burning version of this marine stove set.
large 300dpi PDF, about 3MB

Coleman 348 Marine Alcohol Stove Instructions large 300dpi PDF, about 3MB

Smaller 72dpi JPG images – about 300KB each:

BernieDawg Cap Instructions

Hi Berniedawg
Where can I find instructions on how to fit/mount your silent caps on various burners, say like the Svea 123R? Youtube maybe?
Best,
“Hans”

Hi “Hans”

Thanks for your BernieDawg cap question.

The instructions for the caps can be found at:
http://tinyurl.com/lvv3syn

That same link to the instructions can also be found at the main page of each of my product manufacturing pages. (it’s down at the bottom of the text.)
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/BernieDawgShop
https://i.materialise.com/shop/designer/gary-adams

The link can also be found at the end of the description of each cap product at my manufacturers, Shapeways and i.materialise. When you decide to order a silent damper cap product, you can just cut and paste the link into your browser to get to the instructions webpage.

Happy camping!
BernieDawg

Hank Roberts & Gerry Stove Adapters

Hi BernieDawg
I have a Gerry and a Hank Roberts mini-stove and I want to adapt them to use todays fuel canisters. Do you have and sell a conversion kit or can you refer me to someone who does? Should you have one, how can I order it and how much does it cost? Thanks for your help.
Signed,
Gerry Guy


Hi Gerry Guy
Thanks for your question. I’m going to tell you the honest truth. It may not be what you want to hear. I hope you won’t be mad.

As you know, the cartridge style used for Hank Roberts, Gerry and similar stoves has been out of production for many years now. The Hank Roberts and Gerry branded stoves have gone the way of 8-track tape players, Sony Betamax VCRs, and crystal radio sets – they are outmoded and obsolete, having been replaced by much better modern alternatives. On the other hand, I do understand that some people enjoy collecting these old dinosaurs. Heck, I have a few of them myself!

I did a small run of custom-machined adapters for Hank Roberts conversions back in 2010 for some fans of this budget-priced stove of yore. I no longer have any in stock. The machined brass adapter connects the Hank Roberts/Gerry 7/16 x 20 stove thread to the Chinese M6 x 0.75 threaded hose/valve set.

HR adapter HR adapter burn

If you’d like me to custom-machine a brass adapter on my precision mini-lathe it’d cost you $45 plus shipping (about $3 in the USA). You can buy the Chinese-made valve/hose set shown in the photo for about $12 on eBay. If you think I’m out of line on the cost of that custom machining, you can give the thread data and show the photos above to your local machinist and see what he’d quote you.

There is no one anywhere else in the world that I know of that does any sort of conversions for these. So, there is no need to knock yourself out searching the web further.

All this said… most people (including me!) don’t think converting a Hank Roberts/Gerry is worth it. You can get most modern brand name isobutane stoves new at under $50-60. That’s what I would encourage you to do. Why? Well…

Modern lightweight backpacking stoves are designed to specifically burn the gas mixtures in present day isobutane cartridges. Hank Roberts and Gerrys, on the other hand, were designed to burn straight butane. Isobutane works much better in cold conditions and comes in canisters you can find all over. The Hank Roberts/Gerrys simply aren’t designed or jetted to work as well as a modern stove with isobutane canisters. They are cute “collector item” stoves, but they are not serious outdoor stoves compared to modern alternatives. (Sorry if this isn’t what you wanted to hear.)

Here are a few name brand modern stove candidates you can Google that would make good replacements for your Hank Roberts/Gerrys:
Snow Peak Gig, manual – $39.95 msrp
MSR Pocket Rocket – $39.95 msrp
MSR Micro Rocket – $59.95 msrp
Kovea Tornado – about $41 with shipping via eBay
Optimus Crux – $59.95 msrp
Optimus Crux Lite – $39.95 msrp
Primus Classic Trail – $25 msrp

And… if you are looking for even cheaper, but still usable stove alternatives, there are many, many imported isobutane stoves coming out of China and Korea that are really quite good. You can find them on sale on eBay for under $20 with the shipping included in that price. Here are three I’ve purchased that I found work just fine and all for under $20 shipped:

Screen Shot 2015-10-06 at 8.47.28 AM Screen Shot 2015-10-06 at 8.47.54 AM Screen Shot 2015-10-06 at 8.48.17 AM

You can curb recycle your old Hank Roberts/Gerry stoves as aluminum in many communities in the USA. Or, you can try to sell it on eBay, though most people have figured out they are pretty much useless now that cartridges for them have been gone for 10+ years. Or, you can make a nice display of vintage backpacking gear in your home to remember those great old times on the trail. (I still have my old 1977 Kelty frame pack hanging on my wall!)

Happy Camping!
BernieDawg

Silent Burner Spindle Nut Leak

Hi BernieDawg, 
 What would cause a flame to emerge right out of the connection where the spindle enters the burner on my Force 10 boat heater? Is it an o-ring/seal gone bad or? I can blow the flame out, but it wants to come back occasionally. I’m leaning towards the burner not being pre-warmed enough as it also wants to flame more than the nice red/blue I should be getting at the burner.
Thank you!
“Leaky Flame”

Hi “Leaky Flame”
You need to tighten up the spindle nut. Provided there’s still enough graphite packing around the spindle, a slight tighten should reseal the spindle packing around the spindle. I often do this “on the fly”, ie: with the burner running. I carefully snug up the spindle nut with a 10mm open end wrench until the little flame just goes out.
Here’s a cut away view photo that a guy on the internet made. He made it wrong. The graphite spindle packing and the spindle ring should be swapped in position as I’ve indicated in the photo. The little brass spindle ring has a flat side and a cupped side. The cupped side should be facing toward the spindle nut and touching the graphite packing. The flat side of the brass spindle ring should face toward the jet and be touching the large threads on the shaft of the spindle.
  Reg Burner Cut Away <— click me to enlarge
And, you can see an online repair manual for your burner/heater at this link:
Here’s a copy of that webpage as a PDF file you can store on your computer/tablet/phone for reference when you are working in your boat:
Good luck!
BernieDawg

111 Spirit Pan Removal

Dear BernieDawg,
 
I have (another) stove question for you – at the risk of asking you to divulge all your professional secrets:
One of my 111 burners has a spirit cup held onto the screw post with a round nut… How on earth do you remove that ‘nut’ ( ? )
 
Thanks,
“Pan Guy”
_____________________

Hi Pan-Guy

On the 111 spirit pan… I’m thinking from your description that you just have the standard spirit pan on there.

Screen Shot 2015-10-01 at 8.04.09 AMScreen Shot 2015-10-01 at 8.02.30 AM
These have a threaded rivet “thingy” that’s been pressed into the center of the pan. (I’m sorry, but my coffee hasn’t kicked in yet this morning and I’m really drawing a blank on what to call that fitting other than a “thingy” so please bear with me on that.) Anyway, there’s no slot or anything on that center fitting thingy to remove it. (Kinda dumb of the makers, actually.) When they were new and fresh the spirit pan is gripped tightly by the rivet fitting thingy and you can just install or remove the pan by spinning the pan on or off.

But after many cycles of heating and cooling and generally being bashed about, the center threaded rivet thingy loses it’s grip on the pan part and the pan will spin freely so you can’t get the thingy to unthread. When this happens, you are sorta screwed. It’s not really the best design. This has happened to me a lot. I try things like levering the pan part while spinning it counter-clockwise to remove it – that can sometimes get you a better grip in the thingy-to-pan connection. I have a pair of pliers that I filed the teeth off of in the jaws so the teeth won’t mar stuff. I sometimes get in there on the thingy with those pliers, sometimes I use some rubber inner tubing or some masking tape to pad the jaws even a bit more so I don’t do damage. ‘Course you already know you can add some penetrating oil to the threaded part of the fitting to help it break loose.

But, sad to say, that’s about all I’ve got for you on this. It’s just a pain in the butt – bad design, like I say. If you totally screw up the pan getting it off, and that happens sometimes, you can still get a new one from Shirlene at A&H.
http://stores.ebay.com/A-H-Packstoves-Supplies-and-Parts?_rdc=1

Oh! One other thing. A lot of folks don’t realize there is supposed to be a little heat-proof washer installed on the pan where it contacts the burner. It keeps the preheat fuel from leaking out through the threads of the “thingy” and under the spirit pan and into the stove case. Leaky spirit pans are a big reason why so many 111s have burnt paint on the bottom half of the case. They might possibly still have those at Base-Camp in England. You can see that pictured in this diagram I swiped from their website. But, no part number is given. You might have to ask after it, or, you can make one yourself from some auto engine head gasket material you can get from an auto parts place.
http://www.base-camp.co.uk
Optimus 111 Exploded View  <— click me for large version

No “professional secrets” here. I’m always happy to share as long as I’ve got the time to do so.

Best,
BernieDawg